tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post1449552822098094025..comments2024-03-19T11:28:58.168-04:00Comments on History Unfolding: A Remarkable BookDavid Kaiserhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05020082243968071584noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-9201536341371915042019-05-19T10:55:53.502-04:002019-05-19T10:55:53.502-04:00Dear Dr. Kaiser,
In her most famous work and in t...Dear Dr. Kaiser,<br /><br />In her most famous work and in this one, her nationalism gives rise both to the motive force of capitalism and to madness. Her evidence indicates an interesting amount of concurrence among these circumstances.<br /><br />It's possible though that all three are effects of a single root force--that is an increase in the incidence of individual competition. <br /><br />Viewed in this light, the capitalist spirit and madness would remain effects, and nationalism would become an effect too. You wisely note that tribalism may be a response to the stress of "facing the world alone," in other words of individual competition. I'm suggesting here that her nationalism is simply a form of tribalism.<br /><br />Accepting this makes it possible to ignore identity and culture as freestanding concepts and so to move two shaky aspects of her argument to solid ground. In place of a presumed search for identity, we could view each player's relative success, failure and mental health as outcomes of her/his competitive strategy. And, in place of a presumed all-powerful culture, we could view the state of any society at any time as the outcomes of many individual competitive choices.<br /><br />This approach would move the social sciences into consilience with the natural sciences, and so solidify our understanding of madness. Happiness would be simply strategy that works; madness would be strategy that does not work.<br /><br />Now, since we have eliminated nationalism as a potential causal force, all we need to do is to identify what really triggered the initial rise in individual competition, and when it really happened.<br /><br />Jude HammerleJude Hammerlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00765872893740924266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-14480643008939474322019-05-01T13:10:51.515-04:002019-05-01T13:10:51.515-04:00There's a condition with symptoms of both, cal...There's a condition with symptoms of both, called "schizo-affective disorder". But it's clearly distinguished from bipolar disorder and depression. There's a sharp distinction between both conditions with persistent delusions and affective disorders without disordered thinking argues strongly against her formulation of a pervasive effect of "nationalism". As does the fairly constant incidence of schizophrenia between societies and over time. <br /><br />Patients with these conditions are much better off than they were before the development of drug treatments. If her theory had been accepted, no one would have bothered to develop them.Roger Bigodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10006814371037864719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-77098407418446448442019-04-29T17:12:42.052-04:002019-04-29T17:12:42.052-04:00Very interesting. I had been unaware that schizop...Very interesting. I had been unaware that schizophrenia was thought by some to overlap bi-polar syndromes. The word, dysthymia, is in professional use but not popular circulation, to distinguish deep "clinical" depression from a recurrent pattern of life-long depressive episodes that look a lot like comparatively mild schizophrenia.<br /><br />An interesting person to hear talk is Greg Boyle, S.J., a Catholic priest who founded Homeboy Industries in Los Angeles. He has a lot of interesting things to say about how "rationalist" public policy projects onto the phenomena of gang violence patterns of cause-and-effect that are not there. It seems like another window on madness in modern society. Bruce Wilderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09631065564839959376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-67770493108849314592019-04-28T00:56:27.833-04:002019-04-28T00:56:27.833-04:00From time to time you write a column which is of r...From time to time you write a column which is of really outstanding interest, and I think this is one of them. The book is one of which I hadn't heard, and in that, it seems, I'm not alone. The thesis which you outline is essentially the difference between the traditional 'closed' and 'open' societies described so well by Karl Popper in his 'The Open Society and Its Enemies'. To that I would add the anthropological concept of 'acculturation', which comes into play when people find themselves in changing social situations, in which old traditions and certainties are irretrievably lost, without new ones being put in their place. For many years I have taken the metaphor of the wave of change, and have felt that there are some people are not merely able to surf that wave, but are born to do so, while others are the opposite. It would seem that these are the people who, in the view of the author of the book, succumb to the new forms of mental disorder. It seems like one of the books I should read. I grew up in the Deep South, in the 1950s and 1960s, and this resonates deeply with me from my experiences there and then.Rupert Chapmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07007234333289329849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-89281567379588014962019-04-28T00:12:25.457-04:002019-04-28T00:12:25.457-04:00Thank you for the illuminating report. You might b...Thank you for the illuminating report. You might be interested in The Devils of Loudun, Aldous Huxley’s brilliant and disturbing study, which reads like a novel, of supposed demonic possession that occurred in 17th-century France. The book left me with the impression that Church authorities found a way to channel madness into forms that reinforced the Christian faith and their own power. It also makes me wonder if, during the many centuries of de facto Christian theocratic dominance, madness was simply labeled as other things, and may have been just as prevalent as today. And when you consider that today’s world is crowded with more people by a factor of 12 compared to the 17th century, and that accurate records of mental illness were nonexistent, it seems rather difficult to quantify the level of mental illness between eras.Gloucon Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05218027862578514587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-59552392189359558522019-04-27T14:08:52.127-04:002019-04-27T14:08:52.127-04:00(Cont.)
I believe higher levels of modern stress d...(Cont.)<br />I believe higher levels of modern stress due to urbanization, media consumption, lack of exercise and low nature experience stresses us. On weekend I sat in first sunny days cheek on jowl with other neighbours. One has to ignore their presence and/or have a high, thick hedge. I recall 19th century people were irritated by this greatly, having come from rural backgrounds and so they drank a lot in lower classes and uper classes became prudish, a form of extreme moral social control when living under closer observation without fresh air, physical freedoms previously enjoyed. In effect the city is a kind of self enforced communal prison and the inmates go quite mad. The next generations adjust gradually but rebel in various ways, sexual promiscuity and drug abuse being common. 7,5 bilion people and cities of 5-10 million globally is quite a stressor. So we see phenomena like formation of ISIS and sister organizations throughout 3rd woorld as identity forming for dislocated males. <br /><br />Stress adjustment is not just asocial as in nationalism, mental illness, agression. Religion, spirituality are purposeful nonentropic adjustment, healing mechanisms. It is then no coincidence that the older societies in India, china developed meditation, yoga, martial arts. I was fairly maladjusted in my youth and found yoga, meditation, tai chi, bicycling to be extremely useful. I read that 30 million in USA practice yoga. This can be nonsectarian. I read that the intense gymnastic form was developed by sandinaviabn military and used by British raj for soldier fitness in 19th century. Original yoga postures were simpler. Western religious devotion of nonviolence in gospels seems more adaptable to urban life than greco-roman religious traditions. So cultural adaptations help. Our nervous systems need adjustment to change from huntergatherer to sedentary farmers to urban clamour. Ideologies come and go. Deep peace helps us adjust in the moment to whatever comes. Maladjustment accumulates day for day and over generations. On average people follow the crowd. Generational crisis cycle of wars and mental illness individually results. Communal madness one might say. One feels it now. Basically as an individual and society we must touch bottom once in a while. Like when you experience a deep personal tragedy and see how unimportant you are. Then daily problems can pass you by and you are a better, more resilient person. Like fed ex founder was a viet nam war veteran. Living in hell makes or breaks us. We see in political and social arena our current mmaturity as a society. Shadow projection is a key psychological phrase for people always finding evil in others but not dealing with own deeper problems. Once people have lived through blood letting episode and felt extreme self loathing upon realization personal capability for evil and that of every man then society might be able to live in peace again for fear of consequences of letting our id control us.Ed Boylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01753383765150492163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-40288040686685864972019-04-27T14:07:37.868-04:002019-04-27T14:07:37.868-04:00Madness is either organic/genetic, social, spiritu...Madness is either organic/genetic, social, spiritual or a mixture. In a medieval village or town one could be a mad fool, eccentric and ignored and perhaps burnt for witchcraft, having familiars. Hallucinations would be communion with evil spirits, possession symptoms or in prechristian times one would be tricked by fairies, etc. Interpretation depends on worldview. Latin soounding scientific descriptions of brain disorders occurred parallel with rise of industrialism, nation states, large cities, scientific rationalism, decline of religion, superstition and localism, belief in nature spirits and animism. So her theoory is based on a correlation of effects, not a cause. I am certain people were having similar problems but they were integrated into another worldview. Nowadays a near madman can be an artistic genius. In middle ages it might have been a saint having visions of christ. Those who in neither worldview manage to adjust their high intelligence abnormal behavior are shunned, punished in some way. I tend to think evolution is continual and as humans evolve by increases in brain size that maladjusted genetic mutations tend to be in this area. Successful ones get passed on. Brain capacity increases on average over centuries presumably. I woud need to check if skull size has flattened on a curve. Well preserved skeletons from ancient graves might determine this. Perhaps this is unimportant however. I heard Einstein's brain was dissected. The neurons are more thickly packed. His first son with jugoslavian physicist was schizophrenic. <br />Ed Boylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01753383765150492163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-62940195416365384372019-04-27T11:54:18.103-04:002019-04-27T11:54:18.103-04:00Professor
Wonderful, highly provocative, comment o...Professor<br />Wonderful, highly provocative, comment on Greenfield.<br />Thank you for posting it.<br />I am still reading it, but here is just a side note, on some topics broached here:<br />I was once invited, by a student, to give a talk on The Grand Inquisitor, at an all male Catholic High School, by a friend there.<br />I mainly just read excerpts to the audience.<br />All the bestBozonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18078858723231122013noreply@blogger.com