tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post4249552456170259399..comments2024-03-19T11:28:58.168-04:00Comments on History Unfolding: Outlets for ambitionDavid Kaiserhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05020082243968071584noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-66363283099842507392010-06-12T23:11:29.514-04:002010-06-12T23:11:29.514-04:00I have just started a blog, partly so as not to pe...I have just started a blog, partly so as not to persecute others' too much.<br /><br />Thurston Macaire's remarks are excerpted there, page at a time, sans notes, for anyone interested.<br /><br />all the best,<br />Gerald MeadersBozonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18078858723231122013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-39631987510681309352010-06-09T13:46:31.684-04:002010-06-09T13:46:31.684-04:00Dr. Kaiser:
you might find Daniel Ellsberg'...Dr. Kaiser:<br /><br /> you might find Daniel Ellsberg's<br />interview quite interesting.<br /><br /><b>'Obama Deceives the Public'</b><br /><br />http://www.spiegel.de/international<br />/world/0,1518,699677,00.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-71857846519504971112010-06-06T19:04:20.998-04:002010-06-06T19:04:20.998-04:00David , This is a broad and thought provoking arti...David , This is a broad and thought provoking article .It is true that Obama seeks consensus just as LBJ sought consensus . It is also true that the GOP and the far right forces in America have been quite sucessful in preventing any actual sonsennsus to occur. One cannot deny that the race card and the so-called southern strategy is working to divide America as it has seldom been divided in the past .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-12739578635772318462010-06-06T18:02:23.194-04:002010-06-06T18:02:23.194-04:00I haven't read this Lincoln quote before. Inte...I haven't read this Lincoln quote before. Interesting, we certainly see this "changing of the guard" idea in local communities.Seth C. Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13559929297207143914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-30918934723374678462010-06-06T17:20:42.499-04:002010-06-06T17:20:42.499-04:00Dr. Kaiser,
Thanks for a thoughtful, provocative ...Dr. Kaiser, <br />Thanks for a thoughtful, provocative view of the present through your historical prospective. <br /><br />We are indeed buffeted by complex and threatening seas. Hopefully our leaders will rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, illustrated by the response of anomyous, the task of building consensus to meet the challenge is far more difficlut than it needs to be due to polarization of the electorate between the thoughtful and the know nothings who are flogged on by the latest resurgance of the John Birch Socity wing nuts.<br /><br />Howard Gladmanxjsdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03949881733298342165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-59663220523942787462010-06-06T10:39:26.667-04:002010-06-06T10:39:26.667-04:00I have long had trouble with the meaning of the wo...I have long had trouble with the meaning of the word "consensus." And, I want to focus just a bit on this because you wrote:<br /><br />"Barack Obama instinctively seeks consensus. Even now I am not sure that he believes that the nation is fundamentally on the wrong track and needs to move in a new direction. There is no consensus--on the contrary--about more regulation of energy, or about a vast expansion of alternative energy sources, or about the government's role in health care, or, really, about any major issue before us. We need him to create one."<br /><br />Consensus, in this case, may be synonymous with terms such as "meta-narrative" or "unifying theme" or "shared beliefs." Yet, can we truly identify any such narratives, themes or beliefs in this world? <br /><br />Theologian Walter Brueggemann once wrote, "The contemporary American church is so largely enculturated to the American ethos of consumerism that it has little power to believe or to act." Substitute the word "democracy" for the word "church", and we have a sense of our American socio/political/cultural dilemma.<br /><br />I recently came across this diagnosis of the plight of the screenwriter. It was written by screenwriter Robert Towne and was republished in Lapham's Quaterly. He wrote:<br /><br /><br />"Again, a series of shared beliefs, in this case focusing on what was wrong with the country, created a sense of communion between filmmakers and filmgoers.<br /><br />We share no such beliefs today. That, in fact, is pretty much at the heart of the screenwriter’s difficulty now: it’s tough to write effectively without common ground between you and your audience. Shared beliefs, like shared experience and shared myths, provide that ground. They give us substance and structure, allow us to interpret and make sense of experience, tell us how we should and shouldn’t behave, help us find significance in our lives. It is belief that makes the real world real and not a surrealistic nightmare. It is belief that makes us think there’s such a thing as truth. It is belief that makes drama—“make-believe”—possible."<br /><br />You, as historian, Brueggemann, as theologian, and Towne, as writer, have all put your fingers on a major problem. In a world that, as you identify, is so dominated by the corporate/consumerist ethos, can we have any reasonable expectation that any national leader can somehow forge a consensus that is the antithesis of that from which we now suffer?Bruce Postnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-60685548640731802002010-06-05T23:25:34.228-04:002010-06-05T23:25:34.228-04:00Now to shift from history to your comments on our ...Now to shift from history to your comments on our current situation.<br /><br />I have a problem with how you seem to be applying the lessons of the past (and the Lincoln speech, which is wonderful!) to Obama. I'm with you as you diagnose our current malaise as, in part, a function of a highly dysfunctional set of aspirations that our society rewards with high status. But your FDR-to-Obama link seems to be missing something. You jump from social patterns to a leader's (FDR's) behavior. And I don't see you show how his success as a leader was clearly linked to a set of aspirations that drove men during that period (other than the tail-end of a "missionary" stage?). And then you seem to be saying that Obama's behavior should be like FDR's - what can we do, not how can we spin. And to succeed, Obama must first create a consensus, which I agree is missing, on what we should do. <br /><br />But if we follow your argument from history, the fundamental consensus that's lacking is a consensus re aspirations and values, not a consensus about how to act. I'm putting words in your mouth, but I take from your historical examples that we won't find a sustainable consensus on policy action unless those policies flow from, or are consistent with, a consensus on values and goals. <br /><br />I do think that Obama has a pretty good idea about the need to set an entirely new course in terms of both policies and democratic process. In fact, he's been consistently explicit about both the need for a new course and the new directions he thinks we should set. I expect he also recognizes that without a consensus about aspirations and values (or with our currently dysfunctional set of rewards for bad behavior), it's going to be that much harder to turn the aircraft carrier. I'd expect he's read and taken that Lincoln speech to heart.<br /><br />But I doubt that he thinks he as President either can or <i>should</i> be the one to "lead" the nation to a new set of culturally embedded values. I expect he thinks he can make a marginal difference in some attitudes, but that he believes there are and <i>should</i> be limits to what he can do. <br /><br />After watching him for several years, I've also concluded that he thinks <i>how</i> he acts, not just what policies he puts in place, is part of the shift we need. So his personal, stubborn commitment to a low-key, consensual process, even if it doesn't produce the "bipartisanship" he appears to be seeking, is still important.<br /><br />That's the "king and his court" element that can be influential even in a democratic republic. By his actions, not his words, he changes what gets praise and rewards. Give people different things to aspire to do and be.<br /><br />So if I apply your history lessons, it seems to me your critique of Obama is missing something. If you're going to criticize him for being too consensus-seeking in process, but failing to forge a new substantive consensus, you need to explain what he, Obama, should be doing to nurture a set of aspirations and values to replace the ones that have gotten us into the mess we're in.dunnettreaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01458450047215098334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-72564327033290613592010-06-05T23:09:33.620-04:002010-06-05T23:09:33.620-04:00I found your discussion fascinating re big shifts ...I found your discussion fascinating re big shifts in culturally shared aspirations/values that link to incentives for different sorts of achievements which a culture rewards with high status. I've been thinking about that recently because I've been reading a lot of Britain in the first half of the "long 18thC". <br /><br />Among the notable differences between England and France was the effective disappearance after the Cavalier generation of a big chunk of the nobility that was devoted to, defined itself and justified its existence in terms of, war. Sure, there were famous generals and admirals the British lionized like Marlborough until his fall. But for a young English aristocrat deciding how he wanted to make his mark in the world, the military wasn't top choice. It was attractive for younger sons who had an interest in the military, but it wasn't the route to <i>gloire</i>.<br /><br />Given how pedestrian the English court was for most of the century after the Glorious Revolution, whether in terms of social status or patronage of the arts, "success" at court as a goal also didn't match the French obsession with Versailles. An interest at the British court was far more likely to be pursued in the rather brutal competition for political power (and the wealth that often accompanied it).<br /><br />So there wasn't much in the way of top-down definitions of culturally validated aspirations which were widely accepted by society. Instead, there was conflict across a hosts of spheres (political, artistic, philosophical, scientific, educational, commercial, financial) among competing definitions of what was to be aspired to and rewarded. <br /><br />What is Pope's Dunciad but the posing of the Question: Who in the world could want their sons to grow up to be just like Sir Robert Walpole and his minions, hacks and henchmen? A culture is dead if that is all it is capable of aspiring to.<br /><br />You've got me musing now on the dynamics of how Britain shifted over the subsequent century from a vacuum of shared values (or a heavily contested space) to a cultural consensus that rewarded industry and empire. Hmmm.dunnettreaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01458450047215098334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-29002181543929064432010-06-05T21:17:31.644-04:002010-06-05T21:17:31.644-04:00Have to say a word here. Great article.
Unfortuna...Have to say a word here. Great article.<br /><br />Unfortunately, voters often no longer know what may be in their interests, especially with expansions of the franchise, and the failure of the 1st amendment, etc., to do anything but aid media to sell by sensationalism, obfuscation, or fear, not edification. <br /><br />Thus, what are voter 'numbers', really, in the larger scheme of things? <br /><br />And, as you have mentioned elsewhere, the parties have played false with the electorate for decades. <br /><br />It is a systemic problem......<br /><br />Churchill was returned to power, very reluctantly, at the outset of the Second World War. Failure of appeasement (read, now, cold war liberal international economic order).<br /><br />Could easily not have happened. Just imagine the consequences.<br /><br />When the smoke cleared, he was sent packing. Nuf said.<br /><br />All the best,<br />GMBozonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18078858723231122013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8746692.post-7308026392149749302010-06-05T17:40:55.914-04:002010-06-05T17:40:55.914-04:00Dr. Kaiser, I would strongly disagree with you tha...Dr. Kaiser, I would strongly disagree with you that there is no consensus!!<br /><br />Let's look at the numbers:<br /><br /><b>Federal Debt, Terrorism Considered Top Threats to U.S.</b><br /><br />http://www.gallup.com/poll/139385<br />/Federal-Debt-Terrorism-Considered<br />-Top-Threats.aspx<br /><br />70% Support Crackdown On Those Who Hire Illegal Immigrants<br /><br />60% Favor Repeal of Health Care Law<br /><br />65% Oppose Nationalization of U.S. Oil Industry<br /><br />72% Are Not Confident Congress Knows What It’s Doing When It Comes to The Economy<br /><br /><br />The current president and his regime are not doing ANYTHING about<br />the subjects voters care.<br />They are following their <b>OWN</b><br />agenda with total disregard for<br />voter's wishes.<br /><br />One can just look at the deficit<br />spending of the current administration to see the glaring<br />disconnect between the regime's<br />agenda and the voters wishes.<br /><br />All of that will be addressed<br />in the upcoming and subsequent<br />elections.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com